[BAA Comets] Comet Section Programmes

Tue May 8 16:00:14 BST 2012

Hi Dennis,

All good stuff and I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. A few comments.

1) For some time now I have been submitting data to the Spanish group. Analysing the
images with Astrometrica and Focas (developed by them) is very easy and to be
encouraged. I didn't go down the Italian route as the filters are quite expensive and
not available on SSON telescopes. 
2) I hope to promote most of what you say via the comet search/observation program
(Project Alcock) which I propose to roll out via local astronomical societies (see my
post dated May 2). This should enable us to reach a wider audience than individual
approaches. Not everyone will be aware of all the comet observing opportunities you
list in your post and I mentioned in mine so publicising them and offering some
assistance would meet your point about making existing programs more efficient and
responsive. My own society (Hampshire Astronomical Group) is quite receptive of this
idea so I should be able to pilot test the project with them. 
3)Allocating areas of sky was one thing I considered as I thought the supernova
search operated in that manner but I now understand it does not so I have dropped the
idea
4) The team approach you mention wrt SOHO images would be ideally suited to local
astronomy groups in particular those which have a permanent site and/or internet
access
5) Encouragement is sadly lacking in the section - I know that some in the BAA feel
that hand-holding is unnecessary but newcomers and even the more experienced need a
leg up now and then. Section mtgs are an ideal conduit but have not been at the top
of the priority list sad to say. 
6) Projects to observe/image specific comets (as Richard Miles does with his ARPS low
phase angle asteroids) could be a way of generating enough interest to enable papers
to be written and thus ensure the proper recognition is given to those involved.

The one burning question is how do we kick all of this off? We can post to this list
until it stops raining but that won't, in itself, bring about any permanent change.

Regards

Roger Dymock
Email: roger.dymock at ntlworld.com
Tel: 023 92647986
Skype: rjvdymock
MPC Observatory Code: 940

-----Original Message-----
From: comets-disc-bounces at britastro.org [mailto:comets-disc-bounces at britastro.org] On
Behalf Of denis buczynski
Sent: 07 May 2012 21:32
To: comets-disc at britastro.org
Subject: [BAA Comets] Comet Section Programmes

Hello All,
I have read with interest the comments on future Comet Section Programmes and
collaborations and 
wonder if we need to firstly address the programmes which are currently being offered
to Section 
members. There seems to be a four areas of observational activity within the Section,
these being:
a) Visual observations for magnitude determination.
b) CCD observations, mainly for astrometric determinations.
c)Searching for new comets visually and by electronic imaging.
d)Searching spacecraft images for new Sun grazing comets.

My comments on these programmes are offered below

The visual observations are handled by Jon Shanklin who utilises the observations
made by Section 
members and combines these with observations submitted to TA (Guy Hurst) and he
presumably utilises 
observations send personally to him from observers around the world, to derive light
curve analysis. 
Where these are published, other than in The Comet Tale (and occasionally in the JBAA
as part of the 
annual review of Comets) is unknown to me as they are not publicised nor are there
links to papers 
containing members work. Such an approach is taken in other Sections such as VSS
where individual 
observers are credited as multiple authors in papers produced from analysis of their
observations. 
Whilst there may be a dislike amongst some for using the multi author approach in
scientific 
publications, it does offer the advantage that individual effort is acknowledged and
it provides 
encouragement for observers to submit future work. There is much more that could be
done to 
encourage our Section members and to recruit more and new observers. I am a big
believer in the "pat 
on the back" and the team approach.The encouragement that flows from published work
can only be 
beneficial to our Section.

CCD observers are probably the most active in our Section. Yet to my knowledge no
scientific data is 
derived from CCD images submitted to the Section. Individual observers do make
astrometric 
determinations from their own observations and some submit these to the MPC to be
included in the 
world wide effort to produce observations to enable orbit determination. Other than
that individual 
effort there is no programme running in the Section to utilise the CCD images for
magnitude 
determination, which is the other main and obvious parameter which could be derived
from the CCD 
images, other than astrometric data. We should consider if it might be worthwhile
submitting data 
derived from the astrometric observations to Mark Kidger for inclusion in his Spanish
group. They 
use CCD magnitude determinations to gather data to produce papers which derive dust
production rates 
for individual comets. As Mark has suggested in the past this method is a simple way
of making good 
use of data which is obtained by observers who use Astrometrica to reduce their CCD
images. There is 
a different approach used by the Italian CARA group which requires observers to use
specific filters 
and star catalogues to image comets for dust production rates to be established. This
could also be 
considered by our Section as a collaborative programme to which we could contribute.
We need to do 
more than just publish observers CCD images of comets on the BAA Gallery. Another
programme which 
has been mentioned is the T3 project run by Lucca Buzzi  in Italy and is supported by
many observers 
around the world. The idea behind the programme is to image asteroid like objects to
see if there is 
any evidence of cometary activity. There has been some good successes had by this
group in the past 
few years and it is again something that our more experienced observers/imagers my
want to attempt. 
It must be appreciated that the general observing conditions experienced in the UK
may not be the 
conducive to guaranteeing success in this programme as the required high resolution
imaging needs 
good seeing conditions. Alongside this the long cloudy spells which we endure
mitigate against long 
term monitoring. However there are opportunities for observers to contribute to this
programme by 
using overseas robotic telescopes. Some of our Section members have regular access to
these 
instruments situated at premier observing sites around the world.The Section could
coordinate 
observations via the BAA robotic telescope programme to allow us to collaborate in
the T3 project.

Searching for new comets is an area which only a few members are taking part. Only
two that I know 
(in the UK) search visually and one via CCD imaging. The search for new comets is a
passion that is 
usually reserved for those who tread their own path and may not be a programme that
could or should 
be organised by the Section, but should be left to the ingenuity of those individuals
driven by that 
desire. I cannot foresee a situation where we are operating a visual search programme
where specific 
sections of sky  are allocated to individual observers. Nor can I see us acting like
the Skelnate 
Pleso Observatory of the 1950's who took turns to man/female large binoculars in a
coordinated sweep 
of the dawn skies for new comets. The search for new comets via CCD imaging offers a
real prospects 
of discovery as was demonstrated last year. Firstly all CCD images taken for any
purpose should be 
intensely scrutinised by observers for any evidence of comet images. There is a
chance that an 
unknown comet may have brightened by means of an outburst, such as happened when
Justine Rinner ( 
the French observer) discovered a new comet on her CCD images taken for another
purpose last year. 
Secondly there is the outstanding example of Terry Lovejoy who systematically
searches for new 
comets using wide angle camera lenses and CCD cameras in Australia. His search proved
exceedingly 
fruitful when he discovered his famous Kruetz sun grazing comet last year. He has
also discovered 
other, more regular comets using this method. A read of Martin Mobberley's book on
comet discoveries 
will provide the observer with all the detail necessary to start such a search. We
should encourage 
members who attempt these searches and applaud them for making that special effort.
Any search 
programmes such as these may well be successful thereby ending that long barren spell
of there being 
no discoveries from the UK for 30 years.

Searching for comets using spacecraft data seems to be a very competitive pursuit and
is like the 
programme above probably more suitable to an individual, especially someone who
technically astute 
and knows how to process the incoming imagery to maximise their success rates. Many
hundreds of 
comets have been discovered by amateurs using incoming spacecraft data. I know that
Jon Shanklin has 
discovered at least one new comet in this way and that Micheal Oates in Manchester
was the leading 
discoverer at one point in time. It would be good if there was a way of the Section
promoting this 
type of search and and despite my comment above there may be a way of utilising a
team approach.

In conclusion I would like to make the point that it would be good to make our
existing programmes 
more efficient and responsive. For us to publicise the work of observers more
regularly. To extract 
more from the observations we receive today and to offer our members a website
alongside this forum 
that is interactive and is our shop window. Perhaps other interested observers may be
tempted to 
join in our activities.For us to be thinking of introducing new programmes at this
time may just 
dilute what we are already have on offer. We just need to make more of what we do and
we need to 
publish more of what we do.

Sorry for choosing the verbose route in penning this note!
Denis

_______________________________________________
Comets-disc mailing list
Comets-disc at britastro.org
http://lists.britastro.org/mailman/listinfo/comets-disc