Use of Non-Technical Units in astronomy

Forums Asteroids Use of Non-Technical Units in astronomy

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  • #616427
    Nick James
    Participant

    Regular viewers of the Christmas Sky Notes will know that I get irritated by the media’s use of what I call Non-Technical Units (NTUs) to describe the size of astronomical objects. Recently though I think I have uncovered a conspiracy that certain media outlets are deliberately placing stories so that they get featured in our Sky Notes sessions. How else can you possibly explain the three attached items from the Jerusalem Post? They variously describe the size of objects in terms of Pandas, horses and trophies. In the past we have also had giraffes and king-sized beds.

    If you spot any more like this please send them to me!

    I’ve also got another one that describes the size of a 50m diameter asteroid as being equivalent to the size of a “50m Olympic swimming pool”. I’m waiting for one that says that the asteroid’s diameter is the same as 50 1-metre rulers laid end-to-end…

    #616433
    Grant Privett
    Participant

    Thats inspired. Someone at the Jerusalem Post is very bored and having fun.

    I’m looking forward to mass being expressed in terms of Tesla batteries or volume in terms of St Paul’s Cathedral.

    #616435
    Dr Paul Leyland
    Participant

    Given that serious astronomers express stellar luminosities both in ergs/second and in a inverted logarithmic scale to a bizarre base, I am inclined to cut journalists some slack.

    #616436
    Mark Phillips
    Participant

    The Jerusalem Post (not my normal reading!) published this… https://www.jpost.com/science/article-729035

    “2 asteroids the size of 22 penguins to pass Earth this weekend
    Both asteroids 2023 AT and 2023 AE1 are as much as 22 meters wide, meaning 22 emperor penguins. They won’t hit us though – penguins are more likely to.

    “Emperor penguins have an average swimming speed between six to nine kilometres per hour. This means that, at best, asteroid 2023 AT is barrelling through space at a speed that’s around 2,892 times faster than the swim speed of an emperor penguin.”

    I responded to it in my weekly newsletter to the Astronomical Society of Edinburgh:

    “On 17 Feb 2023 asteroid 2020 DG4, the size of 4.5 ± 0.2 ASE Presidents laid end-to-end, will come within 1.4 ± 0.05 Lunar Diameters of the Earth at a speed of 6.9 km/s, 222 ± 5 times the speed of his car on a motorway.”
    Suspect it won’t catch on.
    Mark

    #616438
    Robin Leadbeater
    Participant

    I see someone else has spotted this authors propensity for the use of NTU (or is this blog yours under a pseudonym)
    https://boingboing.net/2023/03/16/a-nice-asteroid-69-alligators-long-passed-by-the-earth-this-week.html
    At first I wondered if he might be a BAA member deliberately taunting you but looking at his linkedin CV perhaps measurements in Parthenons or WWE rings might have been more appropriate
    https://il.linkedin.com/in/aaron-reich-018ab9124

    #616441
    Nick James
    Participant

    It is slightly comforting to know that it is an actual person who is writing this copy, not some AI chatbot. I’m sure he is having a laugh and I guess the headlines are good click-bait so the websites are happy too. We shouldn’t really encourage them!

    #616457
    Gordon Mackie
    Participant

    Not in the press or media, but did spot the attached some time ago. A bit ludicrous, but I suppose in a positive way this “fun fact” might get (kids) enquiring minds thinking about the large distances involved in all things space related?

    #616648

    I like the one were an asteroid was described as 33 armadillos in length 🙂

    #616650
    Grant Privett
    Participant

    Ah, but is that Chlamyphoridae or Dasypodidae? These are important details.

    You could also express it as the time an unladen swallow might take to fly it and then you would have to ask, european or african?

    #616651
    Dr Paul Leyland
    Participant

    We should get back to good old Imperial units.

    I suggest the Fathom-Fortnight-Slug system.

    #616676
    Robin Leadbeater
    Participant

    Even MIT asteroid specialists are partial to the odd NTU and have even provided a conversion factor.

    https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/does-earth-have-new-quasi-moon/

    Longtime asteroid specialist Richard Binzel (MIT) tells Sky & Telescope he estimates this object’s [2023 FW13] size to be about 10 to 15 meters across: “Somewhere between a boxcar and a large Winnebago.”

    #616684
    Nick James
    Participant

    I wonder if the general public actually find these comparisons useful or is it just that journalists like to use them? Have we really reached the state where people can’t visualise something that is 10 m (or let’s say 40 ft) across? By all means use units that people are familiar with but I do wonder whether these comparisons are useful or even meaningful. I once saw the speed of the space shuttle in orbit described as 22 times the speed of sound. Discuss.

    #616693
    Dr Andrew Smith
    Participant

    I find it difficult, to the point if not trying, to visualise any measurement outside my direct experience. It matters not if it’s a technical unit or not.

    Does anyone have a good feel for a light year or 10 football pitches? I certainly don’t.

    Regards Andrew

    #616694
    Jeremy Shears
    Participant

    Whilst units are sometimes conjoured up to make a good story or headline, I think they do have a place in some circumstances for engaging with, and relating to, the public. Perhaps not the SI Giraffe, but solar system debris measured in London buses might well have a place in popular culture.

    Similarly for your space shuttle speed. 22x speed of sound is relatable to a certain generation who knew the Concorde cruised slightly above Mach 2. But I get your sound in space point.

    BTW I was present at the British Concorde’s (002) maiden flight from Filton, Bristol, which happens to be 54 years ago today!

    #616705
    Dr Paul Leyland
    Participant

    BTW I was present at the British Concorde’s (002) maiden flight from Filton, Bristol, which happens to be 54 years ago today!

    I have been in the cabin of a Concorde. Sadly, it was travelling at Mach 0 in a hangar at Duxford, just down the road from here.

    If anyone would like to replicate my experience, please let me know in good time and I will show you around the district and, in particular, introduce you to the excellent pub “The Plough” in Duxford.

    Paul

    #616713
    Grant Privett
    Participant

    Oh hell. That ages me. I watched it on TV.

    #616717
    Lars Lindhard
    Participant
    #616721
    Jeremy Shears
    Participant

    Great video – thanks Lars. 1969 was an exciting year for a small boy obsessed with science & technology, witnessing the Concorde flight first hand and the lunar lands, later that summer, on TV.

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