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There has been a number of these gunsights listed in the various auction houses, interestingly PATT.G328Y is nothing to do with a patent number as David and myself mentioned it’s too short, also the abbreviation for a patent only has 1 T.
Patt.G328Y refers to a pattern number, the picture which I have hopefully uploaded shows a case in which the instrument was kept, stenciled on the inside of the lid is the pattern number.
Daryl
Attachments:
Very interesting article from the Historical section, at least it establishes the date of the Ealing factory when it was built. Below is a link to Patentscope as the IPO claim all patents from 1900 are now on WIPO’s Patentescope, however past experience with the IPO does tend to make me believe that not all may have made it to WIPO’s system as the IPO has quite a backlog and shortly I suspect things might get worse there as there are rumored up to 40% job cuts.
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=GB137211095&_cid=P20-L586LC-70772-2
As you will notice the application number and publication number is longer than G328Y and prefixed with GB. If G328Y refers to the patent classification the problem is even more weird. There was (now superseded) a G classification for instrumentation, optics are one of the subsections under G, but there isn’t/wasn’t a subsection which bears any resemblance to G328Y
The Patentscope entries for Ottway only fill up 3 pages
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/result.jsf?_vid=P20-L587CK-97814
Of course the G328Y if it is a patent number could predate the Ealing factory, since they put this on their gunsights it would be interesting if the origin of G328Y comes to light.
The link below is a guide to finding GB patents from 1617 (GB1) to 1899, after 1899 in theory the patent should be found via Patentscope
https://www.bl.uk/help/find-early-british-patents
Good luck
DarylContacting the family is probably the easiest route, the WIPO database (Patentescope) only has GB patents from 1900, other search engines in the public domain like Espacenet (EIPO) won’t find it either, this also applies to search engines used by IP professionals ( I used to work for an IP consultancy). But knowing the IPO many will have slipped through their process, as I know only too well when conducting searches.
Assuming the number G328Y is the full application or publication number it’s likely this patent dates back to the 1800’s, perhaps earlier, this is where things get tricky, the patents prior to 1900 are in the National Archives, the link below explains how to find it.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/patents-of-invention/
However several problems now rear their head;
The old IPO records are frankly in a mess and many haven’t been cataloged or cataloged incorrectly.
Modern patents are supposed to contain enough information for an expert in the field to go and make it, however back in the early 20th century and earlier things get interesting as details were left out or even altered to make the invention useless. This was to stop IP theft.
The inventor according to the IPO around the time of WW1 was Kenneth Ottway, he’s the only one listed as inventor during this time.
Ottway Engineering in Chandlers Ford was registered in companies house in December 1968, W Ottway & Co Ltd started in 1630 until 1964, I wonder if the current company is connected in anyway with the old one and what happened to it’s archives.
One observation I have is G328Y is very short unless it’s a very old patent, the earliest patent that I know of was registered in 1617. Even though patents do expire after 20 years, once they are published, (not necessarily granted) it prevents anyone applying for a patent which infringes the prior art, even if the prior art is extremely old.
1912 is probably the date it was made, however taking the above information into account the patent could be considerably older, I have come across several cases where the patent number is incorrect, that’s usually to frighten off anyone thinking of copying it or to prevent them seeing exactly what was patented.
Patents in the UK are prefixed by GB, just the G is unusual and could be an early English patent circa 16xx-1800.
In a nut shell it’s dealing with the national records office.
Good Luck
DarylI was going to attempt an observation last night, cloud got in the way, might be a bit ambitious from where I live in South Wales as it has a good chance of being obscured by trees and buildings
Hi Alex,
Very interesting when I play around with the light trends where I live from 1992 to the present the light pollution has seen a slight drop, however over the past 3 years it has risen slightly. Recently Caerphilly Council has replaced the sodium and mercury lights with LEDs, they just replaced the heads and not adjusted the distance between the lamp posts, this has resulted in quite a few areas being a lot brighter, we don’t need to put the bathroom light on anymore! We moved here 6 years ago and the light trends over that time frame showed a slight rise which seems to have been reflected in my observations. It makes the CPRE results even more odd.Thanks for the links, very useful.
Best Wishes
DarylWhat interesting links, very useful, the light trends was interesting for the area I live, it did show a drop since 1992 which was a surprise.
Best Wishes
DarylLooking back at how many people CPRE claim to have submitted results;
2020- 2500
2021- 7-8000 as their website mentioned both figures depending on what part of it you looked at
2022- 2500Further back I haven’t got the figures, but this does raise concerns about their conclusions, is the drop in light pollution due to fewer people contributing this year when compared to 2021. I’ve lived here for 6 years and in that time Caerphilly council has replaced most of the streetlights with LED from the sodium and mercury lights and they switch them off between midnight and 5am, plus security lights have increased dramatically.
The change in the colour of the skyglow from Bristol, Newport and Cardiff has noticeably changed now LED lighting is commonplace.
Best wishes
DarylHi Andy,
That’s interesting they claim the postcodes cover many houses, where I live there were 4 results close by, when I zoomed in on my red dot it was over my house as it was last time in 2021. When I zoomed on the nearest one to me it also zoomed in to their house and the person concerned has an observatory and did indeed take part, the next closest one was the same as it zoomed in to their house and the person concerned also has quite expensive equipment. So their response about the postcodes don’t agree with the graphic on their website, at least that’s where I live, it would be interesting if anyone else who took part has the marker over their house.I think it’s a bit naïve of them to assume most taking part hasn’t got expensive equipment, 3 of those near me, myself included has expensive equipment but the 4th person I’m not sure about.
Personally it’s put me off contributing in the future.
I totally agree if they want their results taken seriously they should publish detailed analysis, going from 7-8000 in 2021 ( there website give both figures so how many did take part?) to 2500 is quite a drop and was this taken into account when they reached their conclusions.
I like the letter in the last journal, the author does raise some interesting points.
best wishes
DarylInteresting article concerning radio emissions;
https://www.astronomerstelegram.org/?read=15383You can send them to the Solar section and also you can upload them to your members gallery
https://britastro.org/observations/As a contrast an auction in America recently a 1st edition with maps went for $1250 plus the usual taxes
This might help put a value on it
https://www.davidlay.co.uk/auction/lot/92-t-gwyn-elger-fras-the-moon-a-full/?lot=47780&sd=1John McCue has written an interesting overview on how to observe double stars.
https://britastro.org/journal_contents_ite/observing-double-starsMy wife has a kindle, me I’m a bit of a dinosaur and like the feel of the pages but it’s good to know it’s on Kindle so I’ll ask if she will download it.
Something to do while the clouds are above, (as they frequently are in South wales valleys)
One book I’ve never managed to get, the second hand prices recently seem very high, I’ve heard it’s very good. Hopefully republished one day.
I did see a couple on the 9th and 13th April which is before the recognised start of the shower, apart from that none so far, but cloud and haze has been a problem recently.
Best wishes
DarylIt’s certainly an interesting object, there is another Atel telegram posted after the one above, ( I posted both on the BAA Twitter and Facebook pages) which indicate modulation in X-Rays
https://www.astronomerstelegram.org/?read=15317While composing your rebuttal, Steve, you might like to munch a Jaffa biscuit: https://arxiv.org/abs/2103.16575
No doubt listing to the Max Jaffa orchestra at the same time.
Do we have the embryo of a new BAA section the Jaffa Section as clearly there is a lot of research to be done especially with the variation of recipe’s around.
Best highlight that one to Callum and the webops team, just checked my email notification and it indicates the BAA? very odd.
