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Attached is an example from the presentation of type Ia and type IIP spectra around or after maximum light.
Incidentally Koichi Itagaki also discovered both of these supernovae
Since type II supernovae are hydrogen-rich and type I are hydrogen-poor, would shooting through a hydrogen alpha filter be a quick-and-dirty way to distinguish them without spectroscopy?
Hydrogen present (in type II) or absent (in type Ia,b,c) in the spectrum would be a better description. The problem is other events also pretend to be type II supernovae like novae, dwarf novae, luminous blue variable supernova impostors etc. You need the detail of a spectrum to be sure of what you are looking at. The spectrum of supernovae also vary with time and with type II, H alpha emission does not really dominate the spectrum for a lot of it and when it does it is often a combination of emission and absorption (a P Cygni shape line). When typically measured a few days after discovery the type II spectrum can be almost devoid of features. This one was discovered early so did show some H alpha emission early on but even then the dominant feature was that is was very blue and currently it looks almost like an A type star but without hydrogen absorption lines, just a very small P Cygni H alpha line. See here the evolution of the spectrum over the first week.
https://britastro.org/observations/observation.php?id=20230528_140227_583fe05370c08912For a more general overview of using spectroscopy to classify supernovae I did a talk about it here
https://britastro.org/videos/using-low-resolution-spectroscopy-to-confirm-supernova-discoveries-2
In essence it is done by matching the spectrum to templates of various types of supernovae taken at different times
Attached is an example from the presentation of type Ia and type IIP spectra around or after maximum light. I think it would not be straightforward to distinguish them from just H alpha and broad band imagesCheers
RobinAttachments:
Just listened to an excellent episode of BBC World Service “Science in Action” almost entirely dedicated to SN 2023ixf
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct4sc9
Astronomers, both amateur and professional talking enthusiastically about the discovery and what we know so far with lots of good science and even a live observing session on the radio!The evolving spectrum over the past week
https://britastro.org/observations/observation.php?id=20230528_140227_583fe05370c08912So B mag peaked in just 5 days from the explosion on the 18th. That’s pretty fast I think, even for a type II
It seems that the R and B are slowly swapping dominance!
Yes my spectrum from last night shows it cooling further to a black body temperature of ~12000K and a fit to an A3v star continuum with a B-V = +0.1
Attachments:
Very interesting thread.
Could I make useful spectra of the SN with my StarAnalyzer 100?
Yes it is certainly reachable with a Star Analyser for example
https://britastro.org/observations/observation.php?id=20230523_183229_5116a1a27f78a1ea
https://britastro.org/observations/observation.php?id=20230523_194606_cc526483f5e34422but the features seen earlier have greatly reduced and at the moment even with higher resolutions it is not showing very much except a slowly cooling blue continuum. Here is the evolution with my ALPY600
https://britastro.org/specdb/data_graph.php?obs_id=13786%2C13783%2C13778%2C13774&multi=yes&legend_pos=neCheers
RobinThe continuum in my spectrum from last night does indeed match an A0v star which by definition has B=V=R
And in case anyone is wondering why a black body curve of ~15000K matches an A0V star visible spectrum when the effective temperature Teff you see in text books is 9500K this Wikipedia graphic explains it nicely
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature#/media/File:A0V-blackbody_SPD_comparison.pngCheers
RobinHi Ian,
That’s useful. The continuum in my spectrum from last night does indeed match an A0v star which by definition has B=V=R
Cheers
RobinAttachments:
Finally got a spectrum tonight in poor conditions with high cloud.
https://britastro.org/specdb/data_graph.php?obs_id=13774
I see there is an earlier one from the previous night there as well by Woody Simms. The features are similar but mine has a hotter continuum, also hotter than the confirming spectrum in TNS so I better double check my flux calibration tomorrowCheers
RobinI have been encouraging imagers on “cloudy nights” and “stargazers lounge” to check the times on their M101 images (M101 is certainly a very popular target!) The earliest detection so far is 20230518 21:15 UT, 20 hours pre discovery and it is very clear in that image so probably detectable some time earlier.
Robin
The earliest pre discovery detection I have seen now pushes back the time of explosion to at least 2023-05-18 T 21:55 (from an image posted on the Cloudy Nights forum)
ZTF report a 10 hours pre-discovery detection at mag 15.9 (g) 2023-05-19 07:45:07 and a negative (fainter than 21.3) 2023-5-16 19:35:38.00
https://www.wis-tns.org/astronotes/astronote/2023-120
so any deep image between those dates could be interestingUnfortunately I am clouded out just a few miles from clear skies 🙁
Attachments:
uncorrupted link
https://www.wis-tns.org/object/2023ixf
Here is the discovery image
https://www.wis-tns.org/system/files/comment_files/2023ixf.jpg
Robin
The 29P event was unobservable from the observatory so I set up some kit on the patio with a clear view and blue skies in the afternoon but was clouded out well before the event which was a shame as I was just inside the Eastern edge of the predicted track.
On an associated note, does anyone know if these kinds of events (not necessarily occulting the nucleus) can be used to probe cometary “atmospheres” (coma and tail) using multiband photometry or spectroscopy? This star would be too faint for high cadence spectroscopy but comets sometimes pass close to brighter stars
Thanks
RobinThere are some a nice high resolution spectra coming from from the amateur 2SPOT team using their new echelle spectrograph on their remote setup dedicated to spectroscopy in Chile.
http://www.spectro-aras.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3090
Here is a picture of their setup on the telescope farm showing both the original low resolution faint object spectrograph on the Newtonian and the high resolution fibre fed echelle using the RC, both on the same mount
https://i.postimg.cc/440QkQdV/RC12-Aube-1.jpgEven MIT asteroid specialists are partial to the odd NTU and have even provided a conversion factor.
https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/does-earth-have-new-quasi-moon/
Longtime asteroid specialist Richard Binzel (MIT) tells Sky & Telescope he estimates this object’s [2023 FW13] size to be about 10 to 15 meters across: “Somewhere between a boxcar and a large Winnebago.”
I see someone else has spotted this authors propensity for the use of NTU (or is this blog yours under a pseudonym)
https://boingboing.net/2023/03/16/a-nice-asteroid-69-alligators-long-passed-by-the-earth-this-week.html
At first I wondered if he might be a BAA member deliberately taunting you but looking at his linkedin CV perhaps measurements in Parthenons or WWE rings might have been more appropriate
https://il.linkedin.com/in/aaron-reich-018ab9124
